Racism 2004 [Archive]

jcmd62

2004-02-13, 07:12

My 12 yr old son got suspended for 3 days last week for calling a black student a "nigger" after the student called him a "white bitch". The black student was not punished in any way.

The exchange wasn't witnessed by any adults or teachers only by other students. In my meeting with the Principle, who is white, he told me that "nigger" was racist but "white bitch" was not, and that my son was being suspended for racism not profanity.

Once again it seems that racism only exists when it rolls off the tongue of anyone but a black person.

My son admitted he was guilty and why I believed him when he said the other boy called him a White bitch. I haven't raised my son to be racist and I still reprimanded him myself for what he said.

I noticed a framed photo on the principals desk of what had to be his kids and just couldn't resist asking him who the little white bitch's were.

He threatened to call security if I didn't get the "hell" out of his office.

Think he got my point?

Ever think that racism won't go away because we still insist on dividing people by race on all our forms instead of nationality?

Instead of spending the billion dollars we did to change every government form/document to read "African American" instead of "black" why not just replace the whole "race" question with "Nationality".

I apologize if I offend anyone by saying "black" instead of "African American", But I refuse to use African American as long as my and my kids only choice is "white" when some form asks for our race.

Realistically only people who immigrate here and then become citizens can really say they are ____?_____ Americans. I must admit I have a problem with those who were born and raised in this country that feel just being called American isn't good enough.

I always thought if you were born and raised in America that made you an AMERICAN regardless of your skin color.

Dollar_Girl

2004-02-13, 08:45

Past injustices have left many legacys in society, one being the 'understanding' that the black community is is still owed by the white community for past occurances. I dont deny the past, but i personally dont feel like a guilty party of past enslavement and so on, and i feel that continuing to place the blame of people in the past on an entire PRESENT race is a huge accusation and a huge responsibility to bear. The inability to work together to progress from the label of 'superior' and 'inferior' is what keeps societ divided in the name of suffering that occured in past generations.

I find that there is still a movement in the black population who feel they are treated as inferior by the white community, with common phrases like "us black sistas gotta stick together" and " i am a strong black woman" etc etc. While i find nothing wrong with being proud of your colour or race, but somehow if it was a white woman walking around saying "I am a strong white woman" it would be deemed perhaps 'inappropriate'. The black woman would get applause for her black pride, but white pride is kinda taboo ... its racist. THis handed down guilt is what leads to tension by forcing people to 'walk on egg shells' as to not offend the victimised party.

I feel like the inability to move forward together as a mixed community is what makes these 'movements' partially usless. Perhaps it empowers the black community, but that does nothing for the problem of social seperation amongst the societies vibrant colours.

I feel superior to no-one. I dont feel inferior to the Germans who invaded my home country and swept people away into concentration camps for being 'dirty jews' or 'abormal homosexuals', i dont feel tension towards the russians who flooded the country, raping women, shooting ch ildren on the street. Then again... i wasn't there, but neither was the young generation of the black community. It is handed down and learned behaviour to assume that past injustice is current injustice and the neverending need to prolong suffering. I'd love to see for once, a sense of peace handed down generation to generation, or some sort of hope and positivity to inspire a new begining. I dont expect anyone to 'getover it', but to be honest i dislike the need for older generations to hand down the responsibility of inferiority or superiority to a younger generation that need not live within the standard categories.

This is why white people still say "nigger" and why blakc people say "white bitch", because we forbid the young generation to create new ways to interact.

I guess if u make a person feel guilty for long enough, they will act guilty, and as a response a victim will be born again, and the cycle will never die, because the problem will never die.

eclectica

2004-02-13, 11:27

Originally posted by jcmd62
I must admit I have a problem with those who were born and raised in this country that feel just being called American isn't good enough.

I always thought if you were born and raised in America that made you an AMERICAN regardless of your skin color.
In France they follow the republican ideal, which is that everybody is French. There is no official recognition of race there. But underneath that ideal is a reality that people tend to be more racist there. They are snobs and do not accept others for their differences.

In the case of children fighting, I suspect they were looking to insult each other, and the racial terms were the easiest things they could come up with. The children are too young to be condemned or punished for being racist.

It's unfortunate that so many Black Americans have been raised to have a chip on their shoulders in regards to racial issues. Being overly sensitive to words and ideas is a step backwards, and makes them out to be handicapped victims.

I enjoy the ease of dealing with my wife's brothers, who were born in Africa. There is no sensitivity on racial issues with them, so I can freely talk about subjects or joke with them without having to coddle them.

Political correctness is a fear of ideas and words. What we really ought to be concerned about are the actions of people, for they speak louder than words.

Criminal_Sniper

2004-02-13, 21:57

kinda like if there was nothing siad to start with it wouldnt happen i dont think
E dont ya think children should be clipped in the ear for it?
long establish habits and belienfs are the hardest to get rid of
especially anger
was i dont like about eqaulity is it isnt equal
they get more money & rights & services
we are the only racists
even though ive met more asshole white people than i ever well black or asian
ill still get looked at like a little bitch by a group of them say on the corner
i can look after myself so i have noone to fear
but some people do

mekajinn

2004-02-14, 00:03

this is a problem that may never go away... in your case jcmd I would say this... using the word 'nigger' is a direct reference to the years of slavery, and therefore is an insult if used by a white person toward a black person in almost any circumstance. For a non caucasion to call a white person a 'white bitch' is primarily a statement of fact (white), with the insult being the word 'bitch'...

The insult would come from the inflection used by the accuser... therefore implying that being white is a bad thing... but still, in my opinion not quite as insulting as the word 'nigger'... I have to agree with Katarina when she states that people shouldn't be held personally accountable for their ancestor's actions... however, history is an important part of world culture, and as such the phrase nigger belongs to a time and place where the black africans were generally treated worse than animals by Americans and Europeans. So, to call a black person a nigger is a pretty big insult, and definately worse than calling a white person a 'white bitch'.

Having said that both phrases are still insulting, and both imply inferiority due to race... and therefore both phrases are inherantly racist. I have to say, not being a fan of your politics jc, that your question regarding the 'white bitches' in the school principal's photograph is a stroke of comic genius, and his reply to you just shows how utterly outclassed and spineless he was... well played sir.

In the end racism is kindergarten stuff... put the correct coloured blocks in the right holes... the fact that so many people are prepared to make a judgement of someone just for their colour or appearance just goes to show how utterly ignorant they are. On a personal level it makes me feel ashamed that any of my compatriots could be like that... it makes me feel that there is some kind of huge failure on the part of the enlightened to show the ignorant that a human being is far more than just their physical appearance.

It is indeed strange that one individual is 'allowed' to be proud of their race and another is not... perhaps this is the legacy of the white man's brutal and overbearing past... it is none of our faults, but we still have to live with it.

In the end jc, I would say (humbly, for I have no children) that you should not be concerned with the ignorance exhibited by the other kid and get your own house in order. Not so much from the point of view that your offspring is only to blame, but because ignorance is not the intelligent path, and I am sure you already know this. I reckon this language was used in the heat of the moment, and I would hope that both parties feel suitably ashamed after a little thought... you have no control over the other kid, but I am sure that as well as empathising with your son, that you can also point out the error of his ways... cuz let's face it, 'he started it' is as kindergarten as blocks in holes etc.

... and that's my meaningful post for 2004 dealt with... i need to think before i speak, but it makes my head hurt you see =/

slx

2004-02-14, 00:07

Originally posted by Criminal_Sniper
they get more money & rights & services
we are the only racists what are you being deprived of?

it's thoughts like the ones i quoted that perpetuate the kind of stuff that we all so desperately try to escape from....

jest or not, kids hear us do it, they do it...

wouldn't it be great, if in our lifetimes we could see real peace among all people.........unfortunately......

it marches on

assorted

2004-02-14, 00:22

Originally posted by jcmd62
My son admitted he was guilty and why I believed him when he said the other boy called him a White bitch. I haven't raised my son to be racist and I still reprimanded him myself for what he said.

I hope you actually did reprimand him, instead of say... getting angry in front of him that the boy wasn't punished. That would be sending a pretty negative message to him.

I just don't understand the self-righteous anger people have about this stuff. Some groups that have been shit on are a little sensitive, so what? Personally, I love making fun of PC folk, but I'm not angry at concepts like affirmative action.

Incidentally, your son calling her a nigger was a lot worse then being called a white bitch. As mek said, nigger implies concepts like slavery and lynching. It's similar to telling a jewish man one is arguing with that "he should've gone in the oven."

I just don't understand why straight white people like yourself get so angry. Do you really have it so bad?

jcmd62

2004-02-14, 01:08

I agree with alot what you guys are saying about the n word being worse. But I grew up during segregation/desegregation and when the n word was not something you used or said to a black person.

Some of you aren't taking the 2004 in my thread title into account. Today The black population tosses nigger around like its perfectly acceptable to do so. Just watch MTV or BET for 5 minutes. One of the hundreds of Movies where nigger is repeated over and over, or just spend 5 minutes in any public school in the MD/DC area. In one instance it isn't meant derogatory and in the next it is absolutely racist and derogatory.

Once again it seems that nigger is only racist when it is spoken by ANYONE but a black person. Now Im not excusing my son because he meant it totally derogatory and why he was told that it wasn't to pass his lips anymore...ever. But as for not punishing both boys equally sends absolutely the wrong message to these kids, especially to the black child who now thinks that white bitch is perfectly acceptable, until he says it to the wrong white boy.

I find more and more that punishment is really becoming one sided on racism due to the fact of this white principal being afraid of being labeled a racist himself because he is a white man punishing a black student. Even moreso in the public school system there is an inherent fear of these frivolous racism LAWSUITS. Johnny Cochran would do exactly as mek did so well of showing just how white bitch could be conceived as not racist, and sue the school for millions for punishing this poor oppressed black child.

Case in point:

KANSAS CITY, Kan. - A federal trial in Kansas City focuses on allegations that a comment by a Southwest Airlines employee was racist.

A 2001 flight from Las Vegas to Kansas City was waiting to depart when flight attendant Jennifer Cundiff tried to get passengers to be seated. Over the intercom, she announced, quote: "Eenie, meenie, minie moe; pick a seat, we gotta go."

Two Black sisters on the flight say the rhyme was racist. Louise Sawyer and Grace Fuller say they suffered physical and emotional distress. Their lawyer says it was discrimination, even though a racist word sometime associated with the rhyme wasn't used.

Cundiff says she had no idea why the rhyme would have been considered racist. She says it was directed at all those who weren't seated, not just Sawyer and Fuller. And she says she'd used it before on other flights, in an attempt at humor.

link (http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0121racist-rhyme21-ON.html)

nicobie

2004-02-14, 01:11

Originally posted by assorted

Incidentally, your son calling her a nigger was a lot worse then being called a white bitch. As mek said, nigger implies concepts like slavery and lynching. It's similar to telling a jewish man one is arguing with that "he should've gone in the oven."

Sorry asssorted, but I feel u are too sensetive about the nigger word.

All he did was vocalize about the color thing.

The girl called him a cross gender cunt.

What's worse?

slx

2004-02-14, 01:30

Originally posted by nicobie
What's worse? the worst part of it all is that it's even an issue with the majority of intelligent people

we are the cause of all things

nicobie

2004-02-14, 01:37

Keyword = ????????

I'd thought u'd like to know that as of today gaz won't let me post on his BB.

I don't know or care what I did. And to think that I liked the dillweed............

jcmd62

2004-02-14, 01:57

Originally posted by assorted
I hope you actually did reprimand him, instead of say... getting angry in front of him that the boy wasn't punished. That would be sending a pretty negative message to him.

I just don't understand the self-righteous anger people have about this stuff. Some groups that have been shit on are a little sensitive, so what? Personally, I love making fun of PC folk, but I'm not angry at concepts like affirmative action.

Incidentally, your son calling her a nigger was a lot worse then being called a white bitch. As mek said, nigger implies concepts like slavery and lynching. It's similar to telling a jewish man one is arguing with that "he should've gone in the oven."

I just don't understand why straight white people like yourself get so angry. Do you really have it so bad?

Anger???????????? I thought my post was quite mild and hardly a rant from anger. I simply exercised my biological right as a father to question the schools, as I see it, wrong and unfair distribution of punishment that involved my son.

Self Righteous????? Because I felt that white bitch was just as racist and deserving of the same punishment. Furthermore I haven't owned any slaves nor have I or my family "shit" on anyone.

You like a lot of racist blacks are the very reason we still have racism. How long has it been and you still are trying to get that pound of flesh you THINK blacks are owed. I don't owe anyone anything just because my skin is white and am tired of people like you who refuse to join the rest of us in the 21st Century.

Sensitive????This 12 yr old black boy is in the same school, wears the same clothes, shops in the same stores and can freely go anywhere and do anything my son can. He has the same teachers and is given the same tests and oppurtunities to advance himself through education as my WHITE son. I can almost guarantee that not one member of his entire family tree was ever a slave or "shit" on by a white man.

Where does he have any reason to be "sensitive". This boy has never had to ride on the back of the bus or gone somewhere and refused entry because it was "white only" nor has he been a slave to anyone. He doesn't have the right to hate me because some white men I'm not related to, were brutally cruel to black men. Not every black man was a slave just like every white man wasn't a slave owner or thought lynching was a fun friday night.

Sensitive????????because his parents and our schools insist on filling his head with hatred towards whites because of a mistake that was made 200 years ago?

jcmd62

2004-02-14, 02:02

Originally posted by nicobie
Keyword = ????????

I'd thought u'd like to know that as of today gaz won't let me post on his BB.

I don't know or care what I did. And to think that I liked the dillweed............

Sinner/Spartacus was banned yesterday.

assorted

2004-02-14, 02:33

Originally posted by jcmd62
You like a lot of racist blacks are the very reason we still have racism.

Yeah um... that's why there is racism in society. Um... because of black people.

Shall we be blaming rape on women and tight clothing next?

mekajinn

2004-02-14, 02:37

Originally posted by wishful thinking
wanna play Scrabble? I have online chess too if your interested...anyone?

i'll play u at chess sometime harby... it's like that bit in blazing saddles (keeping this thread on topic)...

Bart : Well Jim, what do you like to do?

Wako Kid : Play chess... ... ... screw

Bart : Let's play chess

Nobody move, or the afro-carribean gentleman gets it! =D

slx

2004-02-14, 03:17

Originally posted by wishful thinking
i'm a rascist why do you opt that for yourself

slx

2004-02-14, 03:39

Originally posted by wishful thinking
my daddy was a rascist..so i'm one by default..a copout answer harb

you didn't even try to explain why YOU make the decision to be a racist

did your dad make you do it....you're of sound mind aren't you?

slx

2004-02-14, 04:24

Originally posted by wishful thinking
i doubt that's a 'cop-out answer', steve...hell the same reason i am a christian..because my parents were christians.

perhaps i'm a bit confused here....

how can you be a christian, in the religious term that i believe you are referring to and a racist?

sorry harb...but as an adult, you place all bets, your mommy and poor ole daddy don't do it for you

slx

2004-02-14, 04:50

Originally posted by wishful thinking
no need to insult me with your tone steve. sorry dude....i understand the difficulties in accepting responsibility for ones self....excuses always work

it seems that you may be a descendant of those evil rat bastards that sneaked onto noahs boat, making it thru the bleach cycle

slx

2004-02-14, 05:07

Originally posted by wishful thinking
GoodNight, steve nite harb....don't forget to say your prayers dude

jcmd62

2004-02-14, 05:12

Originally posted by assorted
Yeah um... that's why there is racism in society. Um... because of black people.

Its amazing that you include my quote, yet you still didn't bother to read nor comprehend it.

I said YOU and RACIST blacks(and whites)are why we STILL have racism.

YOU = People who still think in the year 2004 that EVERYONE whos skin is white owe's a debt to blacks for slavery and the rest of the atrocities that RACIST whites did to them.

ALL blacks aren't racist, just like ALL whites aren't racist.

Harb your an admitted racist who's daddy was a member of the KKK and I'm supposed to enlighten you as to why I don't want my son using the term nigger in his vocabulary?

Talk about "Mission Impossible"

First off where did I say it was wrong? Not that I think its right just where did I say it was wrong. Not that its any of your business, but I told my son if he felt the need to call someone a name in the future, I'd rather him use the tried and true method of referencing body parts like "prick" and "asshole".

Second......God hasn't been able to "enlighten" you, why in the hell do you think I can?

slx

2004-02-14, 05:45

Originally posted by jcmd62
God hasn't been able to "enlighten" you, why in the hell do you think I can? amen my nigga

jcmd62

2004-02-14, 06:09

Originally posted by slx
amen my nigga

Touche..

assorted

2004-02-14, 15:36

Originally posted by jcmd62
I said YOU and RACIST blacks(and whites)are why we STILL have racism.

YOU = People who still think in the year 2004 that EVERYONE whos skin is white owe's a debt to blacks for slavery and the rest of the atrocities that RACIST whites did to them.

Yes, I'm ridiculing your notion that a "liberal" or "condescending" attitude of whites towards blacks in this country (which is what I think you are trying to describe) and/or a "you owe me" attitude by blacks towards whites in this country is the reason for any racism found in America today. You are, quite simply, wrong. Racism exists for one reason only: racists. Seems rather easy to understand, doesn't it?

I think you are probably trying to justify your own racism and the racism you will likely instill in your son using this as your excuse.

jcmd62

2004-02-14, 23:04

Originally posted by assorted
I think

I think

Once again "THINKING" is clouding your ability to to comprehend.

Funny how I haven't called you a racist nor did I imply that you were racist, and yet it is you that is pointing a racist finger at someone.

Where did I say just BLACK people run around with this white man owes the black man attitude. You most obviously stated that you felt this way. Maybe my assumption that you were not a black person was wrong, but thats it.
Racism exists for one reason only: racists. Seems rather easy to understand, doesn't it?
Yea and I'm "condescending". Now its sounds like I was wrong about you not being racist. Only a hard core racist would dismiss racism so easily because he believes wrongly that going on BB's and telling everyone how he thinks black people have a right to be "sensitive" and carry a chip around on their shoulders that only breeds their own racism towards white men, will somehow dismiss and cleanse away his own RACIST beliefs.

assorted

2004-02-15, 01:51

Originally posted by jcmd62
Yea and I'm "condescending". Now its sounds like I was wrong about you not being racist. Only a hard core racist would dismiss racism so easily because he believes wrongly that going on BB's and telling everyone how he thinks black people have a right to be "sensitive" and carry a chip around on their shoulders that only breeds their own racism towards white men, will somehow dismiss and cleanse away his own RACIST beliefs.

You got me. I'm racist. :sad: Oh well.

jcmd62

2004-02-15, 06:17

Originally posted by assorted
You got me. I'm racist. :sad: Oh well.

Aren't we all to some extent? Ignorance is no excuse, and what a cop out............

I'm a racist.....oh well........yes sad indeed.....

Don't need any smilies for effect.

jcmd62

2004-02-15, 08:04

Originally posted by wishful thinking
my point..exactly.

and the great thing about assorted is...he has this remarkable talent for ending 'arguments' quite abruptly. i was surprised to hear him 'argue' as much as he did in this thread..although some may differ as to whether 'argue' was the right word for it..and may opt to call it discussion or debate.

i call anytime you disagree with a fellow dionysian an arguement.

assorted makes good points...you do too jc. there really isn't much left to say unless we wanna browbeat one another in a cockswinging contest (i'm always up for that..nothing like a good cockfight..ever watch night patrol, jc?)

anyways...it all reverts back to this: motivation..why did you start this thread in the first place?

why did i say what i said in it?

neither was necessary. i am asking the question: why post anything at all to an internet messageboard?

i do it to connect with others..yeah to make a connection..it's great sharing and receiving...i like getting different opinions and viewpoints on things..ultimately i will make my own mind up as to which opinions i will accept and which to reject.

it is quite frustrating when assorted finishes a discussion with you...he usually leaves himself in a position of superiority..i.e.' winning'

and the only way to remain or keep that position is to not respond anymore to the topic of discussion or debate...my very pointing of this out affects the outcome of the situation..as i'm sure he(assorted) may be tempted to deny my claims as his 'tactics'

its not malicious intent..it's wisdom..its getting your viewpoint across..saying all that needs to be said (making your point) and then moving on

assorted is above getting drawn into pointless arguments and debates "on the internet"

he knows there is no prises given or awarded for 'winning an argument on the internet'

as spartacus found funny to quote once "even if ya win...you're still retarded" likening the winning of an dispute on the internet to winning an event in the special olympics.

so there i've said it.

let's see what you will find to tear down and attack about this post, jc..it's almost quite too predictable.

-Tim ;) <---eval smiley
http://freehost.homeunix.com/test/test5.php

Are you getting paid for this allegiance to assorted or do you just suck his cock willingly like the little cocksucker you are harb? I don't remember ASSorted needing any help to look like an idiot.

In this respect I doubt he needs or wants your help. Yet here you are singing the praises of someone else. What an insecure little racist you must be.

i am asking the question: why post anything at all to an internet messageboard? neither was necessary. i am asking the question: why post anything at all to an internet messageboard?

Your right......why did I "BOTHER" I'm not sure myself. But it seems so important to you that you had to ask twice. Excuse me but POSTING OPINIONS is what BB's are all about...NO?

So Gaz am I only to post what you consider mamby or should I say harby enough for you?. Have I missed the part where it is only your opinion that matters around here. I just left this bullshit one way idea of thinking behind. Have I stumbled right back into communism?

You do it to connect with others ??????? BULLSHIT you are a liar. You post like everybody else...........To post your OPINION. I am so sick of asses like you who claim they post to "relax" or to "connect" to any-fucking-thing. You wanna relax and connect .........buy a damn hot tub, and invite someone besides yourself.

Save your rhetoric breath and stop involving people that aren't even posting here. What a pathetic lump of shit you proclaim to be. You did enough talking for assorted I now believe that you are one in the same.

Browbeat?????? I posted a damn OPINION.......leave it to your inane ignorance to call it browbeating.

Your right Harb, why in the hell did I bother coming here? I'll be damned if I have to explain my motivation to you. Sorry I didn't realize you guys had your fill of members. I'll stop posting immediately.

eclectica

2004-02-15, 08:54

Earlier in this thread mek and assorted made the point that it is a bigger insult to say "nigger" than to say "white bitch". I don't agree with that point. While historically what they say is true, as the word is used now, "white bitch" is the bigger insult of the two. People speak a language not based on its history but what it currently means to them. Today a lot of people use the term "nigger" in a friendly, non-hostile way, more often than as a derogatory insult. But rarely people say "white bitch" with good intentions. So judging by the popularity of usage, "white bitch" is the larger insult. It doesn't matter what the skin color is of the person saying the offending word or phrase is. If it did, that would be racist too.

jcmd62

2004-02-15, 09:10

slx

2004-02-15, 13:13

harb....harb.....harb

mekajinn

2004-02-15, 14:02

for any individual to claim that they are such and such because their parents were is pretty poor... u may as well be a snail or something =/

assorted

2004-02-15, 16:27

Originally posted by eclectica
Earlier in this thread mek and assorted made the point that it is a bigger insult to say "nigger" than to say "white bitch". I don't agree with that point. While historically what they say is true, as the word is used now, "white bitch" is the bigger insult of the two. People speak a language not based on its history but what it currently means to them. Today a lot of people use the term "nigger" in a friendly, non-hostile way, more often than as a derogatory insult. But rarely people say "white bitch" with good intentions. So judging by the popularity of usage, "white bitch" is the larger insult. It doesn't matter what the skin color is of the person saying the offending word or phrase is. If it did, that would be racist too.

Interesting point. Let's check with Afrika Bambaataa (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=UIDMISS70401141317062882&sql=Brgud6jah71t0) , one of the pioneers of hip hop and a brilliant black artist, on the work "nigger" in rap music:

"DeLores Tucker has some great points when she's talking about the degrading of black women, the use of the 'b' word - the bitch word - and using the 'n' word, a lot a people have died for us not to be using the word nigger. Some of us who get silly use it for a cuss word, 'Yo Nigga, hey wassup?' and we got some sisters who call themselves bitches. But when other people call them that or whites may say it then it's a different type of thing it's a degrading thing which will always mean that you will always be my slave and I control you.

"We got to recognise we got to get away from them words ourselves, because if we keep saying them, it's gonna keep the old slave masters, still using their old stereotypes, calling us niggers, bitches, negresses and all that. Now it's even backfired on them coz you got white kids in the suburbs and other places saying 'Yo nigga, wassup man'. "To me everything is planned by design. There are people that plan things and think that we should push more of this in the music industry or we should make more of this in agriculture or we should do more of this on TV but don't let the people know nothing about racism or what's going on in government so they're controlling you on tell-lie-vision. They don't want you to think no more. Like Uncle George (Clinton) says 'Think. It ain't illegal - yet.'"

In short. No, it's not ok for a white person to use the word nigger to a black person. Especially not when it's meant in the "historical" use of the term, which was the case when jcmd's son used it. And yes, I think race applies as an issue when discussing who is saying it to who. I do not think that qualifies as "racist" to consider that. "Racist," by definition, is "discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion." Taking race into account when figuring out right or wrong, sometimes, falls outside the category of discrimination. In other words, simply because I take race into account does not per se make me racist. It is only if I make a negative judgement based solely on a perception of a race's perceived "characteristics" then it jumps into the field of racism.

And yes, I think in this instance the words as used is worse then "white bitch."

slx

2004-02-15, 18:27

Originally posted by assorted
No, it's not ok for a white person to use the word nigger to a black person. Especially not when it's meant in the "historical" use of the term,
I think race applies as an issue when discussing who is saying it to who.
"Racist," by definition, is "discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion."
Taking race into account when figuring out right or wrong, sometimes, falls outside the category of discrimination. In other words, simply because I take race into account does not per se make me racist.
It is only if I make a negative judgement based solely on a perception of a race's characteristics then it jumps into the field of racism.

And yes, I think in this instance the words as used is worse then "white bitch." i agree cept for the last line.....depending on the ear that's hearing it each may be as bad or worse than the other & both were disparaging and serve no purpose except to piss people off

assorted

2004-02-15, 18:32

Originally posted by slx
i agree cept for the last line.....depending on the ear that's hearing it each may be as bad or worse than the other & both were disparaging and serve no purpose except to piss people off

I'll accept that. At the least, I don't disagree with it.

Well wait, except there's a political and historical element to nigger that does make it worse. I agree that both statements were meant to piss piss people off. And I think that both kids should have been equally punished, but I would have raised an eyebrow at jcmds kid using the word nigger the way he did, and I probably would have assumed it was something that came from the parent.

it's tricky stuff. interesting.

slx

2004-02-15, 19:05

Originally posted by assorted
And I think that both kids should have been equally punished, but I would have raised an eyebrow at the kid using the word nigger the way he did, and I probably would have assumed it was something that came from the parent. probably both wrongs came from the parents...

therein is the real issue...the real problem....not what the kids do. young children don't yet have the wisdom to understand all that they do or have a grasp on the consequences of their words.....they feel that mimicking there parents is a good thing afterall, they love and respect the parents so why wouldn't it be ok to say the things you hear mom and dad and uncle billy say

where children are concern'd, it's the parents that should be held accountable....children just don't know

if i were the principal, i'd have seperated the kids, scolding them for using the language they used then attempt to kik the parents ass as hard as my authority allowed

mekajinn

2004-02-15, 22:23

Originally posted by mek
for any individual to claim that they are such and such because their parents were is pretty poor... u may as well be a snail or something =/

actually i was implying that a snail doesn't have much choice about it's intellectual attitudes to the world around it, wheras a human being does... and blindly accepting the values of your parents shows laziness beyond belief =/

Criminal_Sniper

2004-02-15, 23:04

belief is stupid
proof is better
would a red trout not like a yellow trout?
is the colour red better? it may not be your favourite but it may be mine
same with yellow
but is there or will there ever be much of a difference to the fish
we are the only ones who classify our species and often name by colour
if white bitch is appropriate then how about black cunt?
i dont think so because it brings up race too
they werent talking about the colour white were they being racist
we are all the one race and divide it for ourselves
but we are too late to stop it we have to fix it
(similar theme with the whole planet here)
only accepting how similar we are (99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999 %
can change things)

mekajinn

2004-02-15, 23:14

Originally posted by wishful thinking
good morning, meka...when you get a chance..read carefully all my posts in this thread...and hopefully you will see that i don't blindly accept anything.

cheers, m8 :)

p.s. what time schedule u in today? its 5:28pm (est time) here...it'll be at least tomorrow before i can set up that virtual chess board on my website..i'm gonna try the mysql one..it has chat and allows for saving the game and multiple instances of it can be played..meaning you can a game with me and someone else at the same time..i'll know more about it after i set it up.

d00d... i never said that was ur attitude... it was just a comment regarding those who do blindly choose... no accusations...

lemme know bout the chess thing, if i can log in from time to time and make moves without having to play the game all in one go that's cool.

mekajinn

2004-02-15, 23:17

ack... what i mean is this...

a human being is what u are... as is a snail if that's what u are... but a racist is who u are...

and we all have choices regarding who we are... there are parts of me that are not very pleasant, and sometimes the bad guy shows his face... i try my best to not be him... but he is always there... it isn't my fault... but it is my fault if i just choose to let him rant away without at least trying to deal with it...

my head hurts again =/

mekajinn

2004-02-15, 23:24

Originally posted by wishful thinking
the two mp3 files are voice samples of me speaking and doing an intro for a local radio station in my area..its another job i'm trying to get...look forward to helpful and constructive criticism.

-Tim :D

I hope you asked for permission to use that second piece :p

and wtf happened to the 18th letter of the alphabet? Has the US outlawed it? =D

mekajinn

2004-02-15, 23:27

i meant the first one bout racism... fucking no edit bullshit forum >=|

eclectica

2004-02-16, 06:28

Originally posted by mek
i meant the first one bout racism... fucking no edit bullshit forum >=|
When you click on this link (http://www.3-3-3.org/forum/editpost.php?s=&action=editpost&postid=2256), what message do you get? You should be able to edit your own posts here just like everybody else.

In your preferences (http://www.3-3-3.org/forum/member.php?s=&action=editoptions), is "browse board with cookies" set to yes?

eclectica

2004-02-16, 06:36

Originally posted by wishful thinking
this as good a place as any to post this (http://www.napsterite.org/harby/racism.mp3)

and this one too (http://www.napsterite.org/harby/intro.mp3)

the two mp3 files are voice samples of me speaking and doing an intro for a local radio station in my area..its another job i'm trying to get...look forward to helpful and constructive criticism.
Your voice is good, but I would like to see how WRCM (http://www.wrcm.org/) would react to you reading this text (http://www.3-3-3.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=205). I hope they're not close-minded.

mekajinn

2004-02-16, 07:49

i live in england... we don't have sun or flowers at the moment.

in the end i am just a miserable bastard, but it's nice to know someone somewhere cares and i thank u for that.

Sometimes i am nice, sometimes I am not... sometimes i put good stuff in my body, sometimes bad... I smoke cigarettes (which i really want to stop doing), I drink very occassionally, and I don't take drugs save the odd joint... sometimes i eat bacon... sometimes i eat fruit...

I don't feel there is more than one of me as such... perhaps i just don't really want anyone to know who i am... i am certainly the kind of person who has to be forced to open up, and eventually i sap all the energy from those who would want to =]

as for revenge... not my style... perhaps when i call things as i see them i go too far, but it is quite obvious that i am better off living a solitary shrek like existence =]

So i suppose when i say there is a bad guy I mean me... but at least i don't lie to myself.

mekajinn

2004-02-16, 07:56

oh, and as for the smile on anothers face... that's a truly marvellous thing, and i'll never stop getting a kick from making that happen... some more than others... there's nothing more depressing than realising u cause frowns more than smiles.

jcmd62

2004-02-16, 08:54

How ironic is it that I just finished watching Bad Boys 2 and listening to Will Smith use "nigga" at least 30-40 times. NOT as a friendly gretting but as "What do you want nigger?" "what the fuck are you doing here nigger?" So if its rich Willy Smith saying it, then its perfectly acceptable? Will Smith can oppress blacks because he is black I guess?

You people are argueing about witch is worse when all I said was that both boys should have been punished. My boy got his ass reprimanded by dad and the school while little Willy was told basically that "white bitch" is an acceptable way to address white people, and basically rewarded for his racism.

Yes this is obviously a huge white conspiracy to keep blacks as slaves as Bambaataa claims. Once again whitey is the racist and blacks are the victims. Even more poetic was when the Cubano kingpin told his cohorts to quote: "KILL the BLACK BITCHES". Lets see now according to some of you this is a perfectly acceptable way to address black people. Well now you said it was not racist to say White bitch, so BLACK BITCH is equally non-RACIST and an accepted description.

Oh yes NIGGER comes from the parents these days. IT couldn't possibly be learned anywhere else. For the record my son was not allowed to see the movie because of its R rating. PARENTS not RATINGS stop children from watching inappropriate media. Keep on argueing about which is WORSE and turning a blind eye to the fact that racism isnt getting better and the only people keeping blacks under the cloud of slavery are BLACKS.

Blacks that run around saying NIGGA are no better than Harbs KKK cross burning nigger lynching daddy and JUST as guilty of oppressing the black race.

Harb my little white nigga bitch, you aren't going to run me off that easy. Its only natural you feel like I'm pissing in territory that you have already marked. Don't be so quick to get your panties in a bunch. There is no doubt plenty of room for ALL of us niggas, or should I say BITCHES.

mekajinn

2004-02-16, 16:56

Originally posted by jcmd62
How ironic is it that I just finished watching Bad Boys 2 and listening to Will Smith use "nigga" at least 30-40 times. NOT as a friendly gretting but as "What do you want nigger?" "what the fuck are you doing here nigger?" So if its rich Willy Smith saying it, then its perfectly acceptable? Will Smith can oppress blacks because he is black I guess?

You people are argueing about witch is worse when all I said was that both boys should have been punished. My boy got his ass reprimanded by dad and the school while little Willy was told basically that "white bitch" is an acceptable way to address white people, and basically rewarded for his racism.

Yes this is obviously a huge white conspiracy to keep blacks as slaves as Bambaataa claims. Once again whitey is the racist and blacks are the victims. Even more poetic was when the Cubano kingpin told his cohorts to quote: "KILL the BLACK BITCHES". Lets see now according to some of you this is a perfectly acceptable way to address black people. Well now you said it was not racist to say White bitch, so BLACK BITCH is equally non-RACIST and an accepted description.

Oh yes NIGGER comes from the parents these days. IT couldn't possibly be learned anywhere else. For the record my son was not allowed to see the movie because of its R rating. PARENTS not RATINGS stop children from watching inappropriate media. Keep on argueing about which is WORSE and turning a blind eye to the fact that racism isnt getting better and the only people keeping blacks under the cloud of slavery are BLACKS.

Blacks that run around saying NIGGA are no better than Harbs KKK cross burning nigger lynching daddy and JUST as guilty of oppressing the black race.

Harb my little white nigga bitch, you aren't going to run me off that easy. Its only natural you feel like I'm pissing in territory that you have already marked. Don't be so quick to get your panties in a bunch. There is no doubt plenty of room for ALL of us niggas, or should I say BITCHES.

d00d... it ain't our fault you're such a bad parent that ur kid is a racist... go and vent someplace else =D

i mentioned kindergarten stuff... and all u can do is point and say "but they started it"... no-one said that calling ur boy a 'white bitch' was ok did they?

fucking dull bastard :rolleyes:

jcmd62

2004-02-16, 19:31

Originally posted by mek
in the end i am just a miserable bastard,

Maybe a new username is in order. So the Cancer stick smoking, pig fat swilling chess player says I'm dull, and once again I'm shown the door. Thats fine because I would rather watch paint dry than waste my time coming here to see how the Chess match is going.

Venting????? I simply point out the 180 degree turn Racism seems to have taken in the "New Millineum", and as usual some miserable bastard who doesn't like what he reads must vent his own inability to deal with everyday life by BLAMING someone else and telling them to take their toys and go home.

It's not my fault that your ignorance and inability to read/comprehend whats given you has you arguing about which racist name is MORE racist, nor is it my fault you lack the maturity to deal with the real issues I brought up and are reduced to calling someone names. I'm not sure no talent wanna be rock stars have the right to judge anyone else.

That was outta line, but you did call a 12 yr old a racist. Neither boy knew what hateful names they were throwing at each other. They were friends before this incident and are back to being friends again. Once again you are only able to focus on one little thing that irks you while the most important issues go right over that miserable head.

Well gaz I apologize for disrupting the mambyass chess game, and driving away all those potential members that have been flocking here to join up. Somebody should take down the welcome sign if you have all the members you want.

mekajinn

2004-02-16, 20:53

Originally posted by jcmd62
Maybe a new username is in order. So the Cancer stick smoking, pig fat swilling chess player says I'm dull, and once again I'm shown the door. Thats fine because I would rather watch paint dry than waste my time coming here to see how the Chess match is going.

Venting????? I simply point out the 180 degree turn Racism seems to have taken in the "New Millineum", and as usual some miserable bastard who doesn't like what he reads must vent his own inability to deal with everyday life by BLAMING someone else and telling them to take their toys and go home.

It's not my fault that your ignorance and inability to read/comprehend whats given you has you arguing about which racist name is MORE racist, nor is it my fault you lack the maturity to deal with the real issues I brought up and are reduced to calling someone names. I'm not sure no talent wanna be rock stars have the right to judge anyone else.

That was outta line, but you did call a 12 yr old a racist. Neither boy knew what hateful names they were throwing at each other. They were friends before this incident and are back to being friends again. Once again you are only able to focus on one little thing that irks you while the most important issues go right over that miserable head.

Well gaz I apologize for disrupting the mambyass chess game, and driving away all those potential members that have been flocking here to join up. Somebody should take down the welcome sign if you have all the members you want.

blah blah blah yawn yawn yawn... no mate... u said that the people who commented in this thread thought it was ok for someone to call your offspring a white bitch... and i can't see that anywhere... so kindly fuck off hahahhahahhaha =D

edit : if a 10 year old can be put in a prison (of sorts) for murder then a 12 year old knows what 'nigger' means... now shut the fuck up you whining twat. You are truly pathetic... and say what u want about me... at least I know i am pathetic... have a nice day watching paint dry.

mekajinn

2004-02-16, 23:38

good post tim...

i have noticed that up to a point this thread was really good... and i think everyone agreed that both comments were wrong...

but i think jc's last coupl of posts just showed he wanted a fight... seeing as this is the net and he can't punch me i thought i would let him shout at me =]

jc... it's the way of the world... we all know it's shit... but what can we do? You have issues, and to be honest i think you have grounds to take the matter further... so do it... instead of shouting at us.

I apologise for what I have said about your son... I do not know the boy, and what i said was out of order... but it wasn't said in seriousness... more in annoyance that you needed to back up your argument further... it wasn't necessary... we all agree that it wasn't fair... now DO something about it... cuz if it was my kid I would... not from the POV of causing shit in his life, but to get a definitive answer from the powers that be as to why this double standard exists... s'all good mate... on the plus side u called the head d00d's kids white bitches... i think that was fucking funny =D

jcmd62

2004-02-17, 00:20

Originally posted by wishful thinking
what is perceived by me as 'hostility' .

I'm sure harbs "perception" is NEVER wrong.

No facts, no quotes to back up your claims of "hostility". Your whining about cursing that doesn't exist, and the only "names" I tossed around were your own descriptions of yourselves.

Once again the important issues I raised are ignored and you and mek focus on petty immature crap that seems only the two of you "perceive".

Its you harb that needs to go back and READ the posts that you claim others aren't. Then come back and tell me who is tossing around names like "dull bastard", "bad parent", and my personal favorite "whining twat". Ironic how the names weren't even the issue in my thread, and one of the issues was 2 people name calling and only one being punished. Down right poetic.

Here you are doing the same thing to me harb. I may have tossed out a name myself, but you sure overlooked several from your Chessmate, and here you are chastising me but not your friend. Once again individual biased "perception" is used to dictate right and wrong. Is it my fault you and mek only see what your limited perception allows and not the real issues you are presented?

Where is all this cursing you are talking about? I quoted some lines from a movie that included profanity and no I'm no angel, but for someone that "THINKS" they know me so well, you don't have a clue harb. ASK someone that does know me and you'll find that "enlightenment" you seek.

My posts here are quite tame compared to my past history, and I haven't received any PM's from the Gods telling me that I am breaking any guidelines. Maybe you should leave that to the Admin.

I appreciate the apology mek, and I never denied that my son may very well have learned the N word from me. I grew up in a very racist time in this country. Pres. Carters "Desegregation" only bred more racism between blacks and whites than already existed. Myself and a handful of white students were bussed an hour away from the public schools we were supposed to attend to public schools in predominately black neighborhoods, as were black students bussed away from their local schools to predominately white schools.

Spending the next 3 years in junior high classes where I was but one of only 3 or 4 white kids in each of my classes didn't alieviate and racial tension on my part nor did it on the part of the poor black kids that were forced away from their friends and familiy members and forced into white schools where they got ridiculed and picked on just like myself.

I grew up tough, but I also grew up blaming black people for the hell I went through. It took a long time to forgive and forget and realize that what I went through was NOTHING compared to what those same black children went through, not even considering white mens past atrocities to blacks in this country.

I guess what bothers me most is as hard as I have tried to teach my son that all men are created equal and to not belittle the black man by using the N word in front of him, It really pisses me off to see Whites, Blacks, and the Will Smiths using this word every second of the day without realizing the damage they are causing parents like myself who are telling our kids what a HORRIBLE word "nigger" really is. 5 minutes later they are watching MTV and thinking WTF is dad talking about, Lil Bow Wow just said "nigga" a dozen times.

I don't want to fight or PUNCH you or anyone ever again. I got my fill of fighting and physical violence in Junior high on practically a daily basis. I still got the scars from it.

Peace Dood.

P.S. I finished my painting yesterday. I played golf today.

Dollar_Girl

2004-02-17, 00:57

Daily overexposure to elements that confuse children by conflicting taught morals and what is 'popular' and 'cool' is something indeed a parent must battle. It makes proving a point harder, but it is also part of the practical side of teaching and learning.

Everyday us and our children are exposed to glamourised violence and verbal behaviour, but i dont think we should be using it as a sole excuse.

Some parents blame marilyn manson for making their son's and daughters, rape, murder and inflict death upon themselves, some parents blame playstation for their child thinking it is ok to go and shoot or beat up people. People blame TV for children stealing and robbing to get the latest things and some blame will smith or little bow wow or whatever, for glamourising the word "nigger".

Perhaps there is truth to these accusations, perhaps our children and we ourselves are easily manipulated by all these factors that beat on our lives EVERYDAY, change our lives, helping to form our opinions, creating and opposing our morals, but we can never blame this alone.

Why is it that some children who listen to marily manson shoot their neighbours, but others who listen to the same music grow to be happy and peaceful. Why can some kids play violent games and think it is ok to beat up classmates, while others dont resort to violent behaviour.

I grew up amongst big racial fights... mainly to be honest, it was the Yugoslavs and Asians who pulled the knives. These Asian kids drove cars that my father who has worked his whole life, could never afford, they talked on cellphones that i had never seen before, they had wallets stuffed with hundred dollar bills while everyone else at school had like two dollars fifity for lunch... and at the end of the day, they went and pulled knives on people... i wondered... why? What factors led to these violent outbursts?

To be honest tho... living in a country where there is much tension between black, white, asian etc.... out of anybody or any racial group, it is the Yugoslavians who i find to be the most disgustingly racist. That is just experience.

I mean we live in a world where the whites hate teh whites, the blacks hate the blacks and everyboyd else hates each other too.

While i understand that this thread isn't necessarily about the wider spread of racism, but more about injustice occured by JC's son due to unequal punishment for 'immoral behaviour', i am jsut pointing out that there is so much more contributing to children's behaviours and moral conflicts than what will smith says on mtv.

It's not fair that the little white bitch got punished while the nigger didn't, but out of anyone, i think we should blame the schooling system, not will smith. Will smith promotes poor language on tv... but t school system where your child is placed on a daily basis, a place where he physically spends the majority of his day is practising and executing poor behaviour directly... and taht is an injustice ur son is more likely to take into consideration, than will smith calling someone a nigger.

The school is to blame, and if i were u, i'd take a good look at the policies and maybe take it further... make a fuss... i mean, why not? Maybe it's easier to keep the peace, and 'get over it', but it was probably easier oppressing the 'niggers' than giving them rights... and history shows that easy isn't necessarily better, wiser or more humane.

easy is waht many teach their kids these days. I had to save for a colouring in book as a child... these days kids just throw them in the trolly and let mum pay for them. Thats easy for all parties right? .

slx

2004-02-17, 01:16

Originally posted by wishful thinking
you come to us in what is perceived by me as 'hostility' i don't see it that way at all harb....you obviously don't know JC

my advice? attack and argue the 'issue' whatever the 'issue' may be and leave personal insults out of the equation.'' what qualifications do you have in counseling others?

if i were giving advise, which i ain't...i might suggest if you're insult'd just stop reading his posts....but then that ain't advise just how I do it

nicobie

2004-02-17, 02:34

Originally posted by mek
oh, and as for the smile on anothers face... that's a truly marvellous thing, and i'll never stop getting a kick from making that happen... some more than others... there's nothing more depressing than realising u cause frowns more than smiles.

Yes. but it's hard to do when u're eyes are open and your brain works.

Lots of times I need to get simpler in order to try and spread the joy.

:bluefish: :bluefish: :bluefish: :bluefish: :bluefish: :bluefish: :bluefish:

(fish for dinner tonite ;))

assorted

2004-02-17, 02:50

Originally posted by jcmd62
I grew up in a very racist time in this country. Pres. Carters "Desegregation" only bred more racism between blacks and whites than already existed. Myself and a handful of white students were bussed an hour away from the public schools we were supposed to attend to public schools in predominately black neighborhoods, as were black students bussed away from their local schools to predominately white schools.

I must admit I'm unfamiliar with this policy of Carter's you are referring to. I am aware, of course, of degregation and forced bussing to schools in the sixties, but I wasn't aware of this during Carter. Out of curiousity, do you feel that general desegregation was wrong? or just forced bussing?

Also, it seems many of the pains in your life end up being centered on politics created by people to the "left" of the political spectrum. I find that interesting as any problems I've encountered in life have happened due to politics coming from the "right" end of the spectrum. Is this a matter of perception, you think, or are we just very different people who live very different lives and therebye have ill effects from different consequences from different political ideas? I'm not really sure which is the case for me.

Ugh, I'm too tired to bother finding a thesaurus to get a synonym for "different" so I'll just let my 4x use of the word in 1 sentence slide. :-/